Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: You're listening to the Weighing In Podcast, the show that brings you inside the Daily Gazette's featured news column.
And now, here's your host, writer of the weigh in in column, andrew, wait.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Thanks for listening. I'm andrew, waite.
Last week's episode covered the verdict in the Darryl Mount wrongful death lawsuit. And I talked about how that verdict, which very much sided for the city and the police department with jurors finding no evidence of a beating that night in 2013 when police chased the 21 biracial Darryl Mount in downtown Saratoga Springs and no evidence of a police cover up stemming from that. How that verdict was very much a strike against Saratoga Black Lives Matter because the group had been holding that case up as a rallying cry and using that case to show that police brutality was pervasive in Saratoga Springs. And the facts just simply didn't bear that out. And I was exploring whether that may prompt Saratoga Black Lives Matter to change its advocacy approach going week. And I'd been thinking about this even before the Mount verdict. But this week I wanted to talk about or look into the political implications of the Saratoga Black Lives Matter movement within Saratoga Springs because really, for better or worse, saratoga Black Lives Matter and its advocacy, they've been a huge issue in Saratoga Springs politics, really for the last several years. And they've been a strong force in public comment period during city council meetings to the point where meetings have had to be shut down as a result of some of their advocacy. And so their presence is really undeniable.
And just to give you a sense, Tim Cole, who is running for public safety commissioner when he's been talking to voters, he says that this is the top issue that they bring up here's.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: Tim, the number one had I think I mentioned I had to go door to door to get the signature for one Saratoga, right? That's the independent line. You have to get signatures. Then I continue going door to door to talking to folks. The number one issue is homelessness is number two, by the way, number one, because it probably got so much press is the chaos in the city council meeting. And time and time again the word is it's an.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: And so interestingly, the race for public safety commissioner in Saratoga Springs, I think it's going to offer the clearest snapshot yet of how the community members in Saratoga Springs feel about Saratoga BLM because here are the dynamics of the race. So Saratoga BLM, much of their frustrations have been directed toward the current public safety commissioner, Jim Montagnino. So the group supported Montegnino's candidacy he's a Democrat in 2021. But their relationship very much shifted after the public safety commissioner issued an independent report in February of 2022 looking into the Darryl Mount case. And it found, much like a jury would find a year and a half later, that there was no evidence of police brutality. There was no evidence of a cover up. And that very much turned Montegino's relationship with Saratoga BLM into a fairly adversarial relationship. And so he's seeking reelection. And I think it's fair to say that his candidacy then in some ways represents this opposition to Saratoga Black Lives Matter.
And meanwhile, you've got Kristen Dart, who is very much a Black Lives Matter advocate. I mean, she's been backed by the group. She's sympathetic to their message. She serves as chair of the Police Civilian Review Board, which was championed by Saratoga BLM. And then the third candidate is Tim Cole, who we heard from before. He's a former special agent with the FBI and he's actually a registered Democrat. But he's running with the backing of the Republicans. And his candidacy is very much about he's trying to frame it as he's an outsider who is above the fray. And so that's it. I mean, that's the race voters are going to decide between whether they support essentially a Black Lives Matter candidate, a candidate who is oppositional to Black Lives Matter or someone who just hasn't really been a part of the conversation at all. So for Sunday's column, I explored the fact that this race, I think, is very much a referendum on Saratoga Black Lives Matter and its advocacy. So here's that piece, and it includes snippets from my interviews with each of the candidates.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: You're listening to the weighin in podcast with columnist Andrew Wait.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: When Kristen Dart, a candidate for public safety commissioner, was a student at Saratoga Springs High School in the early 2000s, she said the public comment period at City council meetings basically didn't exist.
Anyone who wanted to speak at meetings had to be added as part of a council member's official agenda, dart, now 40, recalled in an interview with me this week. She said when a member of the City's Charter Review Commission spoke about this during a participation in government class, dart was inspired to get involved. Her contribution helping to organize the effort to create the sort of mandatory public comment period that's in place today.
This is a fitting legacy for Dart as one of three candidates vying for the city's public safety commissioner seat. That's because the public comment period Dart helped create is very much front and center in the race.
As happened during the city's previous administration's. Tenure advocates for Saratoga Black Lives Matter have been a strong presence during public comment at City Council meetings for much of the past year. They focused their frustrations on current Public Safety Commissioner James Montagnino, 67, who's seeking reelection with the backing of the city's Democratic Committee.
Tim Cole, a 58 year old registered Democrat and former FBI special agent who has the backing of Saratoga Republicans in the race, told me that the perceived chaos at City council meetings has been the top issue on voters'minds as he's knocked on doors. And time and time again, the word is it's an embarrassment, Cole said.
It's fair to say then that this race could be read as a referendum on Saratoga Black Lives Matter and the state of public discourse in the city. The candidate's positions and actions relevant to Saratoga BLM say as much. Although Dart rejects the notion she's somehow Saratoga Black Lives Matters candidate, she has the group's backing, including financial support, notably a $300 donation from the group's leader, Lexus Figuero, and is generally sympathetic to Saratoga BLM's ideology. Dart also chairs the Police Civilian Review Board, which was championed by BLM advocates. Dart, whose day job is working in political affairs for Planned Parenthood, puts her.
[00:07:38] Speaker D: Candidacy this way yeah, I do not think it's a vote up or down. I don't think my candidacy is a vote up or down on Saratoga BLM. I don't think any one person carries that.
I think what the vote on my candidacy is like. Are we in a place where we want to move forward in a collaborative way where we can actually see the opportunity for positive change in our community.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Dart, who is biracial, says she embraces the social justice conversation amplified by Saratoga BLM even as she's been critical of some of the strong language that's accompanied it.
[00:08:15] Speaker E: What is your relationship with Saratoga Black Lives Matter? They've endorsed you. Do you fully embrace them? How would you characterize your relationship?
[00:08:22] Speaker D: Yeah, no, I think that we have a good relationship. Like I said, there have been times when I have disagreed with some of the tactics and there have been times when I've been standing with them.
[00:08:34] Speaker E: What have you disagreed with.
[00:08:39] Speaker D: Personally? For me, I don't like shouting at other people while they're speaking. At public comment.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Much of the shouting from Saratoga BLM the confrontation has undeniably been a two way street has been directed toward Montegnino, who has had an openly antagonistic relationship with Saratoga BLM in recent months. While the group was supportive of Montagnino's candidacy in 2021, the relationship shifted in February of 2022 when the Public Safety Commissioner released an independent report from the 2014 death of the 21 year old biracial man Darryl Mount. The report found roughly a year and a half before a jury in a civil case came to the same conclusion that there was no evidence of police of a police beating during the 2013 police chase. The report and subsequent verdict in the wrongful death case brought by Mount's mother were major blows to Saratoga Black Lives Matter which has rallied around the case as supposed evidence of police brutality in Saratoga Springs.
Then, even as criminal justice reforms such as the establishment of the Civilian Review Board and the institution of biased training for police were being implemented. The tension between Montegno and Saratoga BLM escalated after a city council meeting this February. That's when Chandler Hickenbottom Figuereo'sister was reluctant to cede the microphone during public comment, ultimately leading to the meeting being shut down.
In response to this, as well as Advocates'conduct during future public comment periods. Monteignino, a former prosecutor, brought criminal charges against some Advocates almost exactly the same response that came from the previous council administration.
This led to continued allegations by Saratoga BLM that Advocates have been targeted for their activism.
Each side has support for their positions. Last month, a Saratoga Springs city court judge ruled in the obstructing governmental administration case against Figuereo, which stems from an April meeting during which he allegedly took over the microphone during public comment that the charges can stand. Meanwhile, New York State Attorney General Letitia James has an open investigation looking into alleged civil rights violations on the part of the city for its past treatment of protesters. Amid the volume, advocates have accused Montegnho of being a racist and the other four members of the All Democratic City Council have turned away from Montegnino backing Dart for the public safety commissioner job she's running on the small third party community first line. Cole, the Republican candidate, has been a mere observer in all of this and says he won't even reach out to members of Saratoga BLM until after the election.
[00:11:08] Speaker E: I guess what sort of relationship would.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: You have with Saratoga Black Lives Matter.
[00:11:11] Speaker C: Or aim to not if I'm fortunate enough to be elected, I will reach out to them to see if they want to engage in a constructive conversation, but I'm not going to do it until I'm elected, okay? I'm just not going to do that because I don't want them to be in a position where they're saying they support me and they got me elected and that's what they did to Jim Montanino.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: So that's the race when viewed from the public comment, Saratoga Black Lives Matter lens, which for better or worse has been a dominant storyline in Saratoga Springs politics for several years.
One candidate is strongly aligned with the Advocates, another has become a staunch foe and a third hasn't been part of the conversation.
While it can be fraught to read the tea leaves of a three person race, for instance, cole and Montagnino are both moderate Democrats and could therefore split the vote. It's reasonable to suggest that the results of this race will provide the clearest picture to date of where Saratoga Springs stands on saratoga Black Lives Matter and its advocacy candidates themselves accepted this framing, even while some offered caveats. Cole, unsurprisingly since he wants to be viewed as the reasonable candidate staying above the fray, said such framing hits the nail on the head. He said, is this city going to go way to the extreme left, or do they support moderation?
Montagnino acknowledged a resounding victory for Dart could be seen as a mandate for Saratoka BLM, but he said he'd be quite surprised by such a result. He said, I don't think our community aligns itself with Saratoka BLM.
Montegnino also said he has no regrets about the way things have played out at meetings and stands by his decision to rely on the courts rather than members of law enforcement to respond to advocates'actions at the microphone.
[00:12:59] Speaker F: It's taken a while, but having used the criminal justice system, folks kind of get the message that, yeah, I'm not getting my picture in the paper as the cops are tackling me. Instead, I'm getting a summons in the mail.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: For her part, Dart said a Montagnino victory could be viewed as a repudiation of BLM's advocacy. That would show that the people appreciate his tactics at the table, Dart said. Indeed, it seems that after the votes are counted, we'll know how the community feels. Has, as argued by Cole and Montegno, the conversation about social justice overshadowed other issues such as homelessness, budgeting and short term rentals? Or has the public comment focused on social justice in some ways been the point? Serving as a needed catalyst to push the Spa City in a different direction, dart said. Are we talking about these issues in a way that we've never talked about these issues before? Absolutely. I think that there are a lot of people in our community who see it as an opportunity.
Come November 7, it'll be Saratoga Springs voters with the chance to have their say.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: You're listening to the Weighing In podcast with columnist Andrew Wait.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Before we turn to reader responses, I just wanted to share a bit about another piece that I've been working on this week. So on the morning of September 17, johnstown witnessed its first police involved shooting in nearly two decades. Johnstown is the city in Fulton County, so 28 year old Nathan Wood, he allegedly trespassed in a property on Washington Street and allegedly attacked a property owner with a hammer. So city police responded and Wood allegedly refused to stand down and even attacked one of the officers with a hammer. And that officer was Ryan Wilmot. And in self defense, he fired. And then later that day, Wood was pronounced dead at Nathan Litower Hospital.
Now, interestingly, the city of Johnstown Police Department told our Tyler McNeil, who was covering the story initially, that the police body cameras they'd ordered in August had arrived the day after this shooting. And this was the first police involved shooting since 2004 in nearly 20 years. And it's just crazy timing, right? I mean, the fact that you have this first police involved shooting in nearly 20 years and the body cameras that would provide the evidence literally showed up a day later.
And so just kind of struck by that. I wanted to dig into it a bit and kind of just check the timeline and just make sure that the facts were adding up here. And so when I called Police Chief David Gilbo to talk about this, I was frankly fairly taken aback by his animosity toward me. And he questioned the value to the public with the questions that I was asking. And he frankly was fairly cagey and condescending. And here's part of our exchange just so you can gauge it.
[00:16:19] Speaker E: You placed the order. When did you first receive equipment and.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: What was that equipment?
[00:16:24] Speaker G: I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going day to day.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen or heard from the news media ever.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: And so from that interaction, it just struck me that the chief's attitude and his reluctance to share information kind of in and of itself showed the value of having body cameras, which, instead of having to rely on police accounting of events when police are clearly mistrusting of media as Gilbo is, we have an objective look. We have footage of what happened. And so I wrote a piece that just kind of said as much. And so you can check that out. It's on our website.
Now let's turn to reader questions.
So I wanted to start with one that came from last week's column about the Daryl Mount verdict. And it came from a strong Saratoga black Lives Matter supporter So I felt like that was good perspective to include because the person was very, very critical of the piece that I wrote, which was essentially arguing that this verdict could prompt Saratoga Black Lives Matter to change its advocacy approach. So the letter writer says your article about Saratoga BLM and Daryl Mount is so deeply offensive, the fact that an all white jury there was one black person in the pool who was dismissed, found for the city, does not make it a proved false theory. Blaming the oppressed for impeding progress and thinking you know better than black advocates is myopic at best. You conveniently leave out the testimony that shows the SSPD allowed officers to commit crimes, rape, stalking, intimidation, and continue to attack black people who have only tried to make Saratoga safer. You are confusing the people in power, shaping the narrative with facts. So thanks for that letter.
And then finally, we'll get to a letter that was about a column I wrote last week to do with Governor Kathy Hoekel's visit to Israel, which happened to occur right when she got the news that her father had passed. And the piece basically talked about how Governor Hochel's resolve in that moment and kind of getting down to business in the face of such grief is the resolve that we need from leaders in the Middle East to not be focused so heavily on responding to their emotions, but to be able to act rationally and kind of continue on with needed business. And so letter writer just said, very good article this morning. Very moving, balanced and informative. Let's hope and pray for better times ahead. Clearly, the present circumstances in the Middle East are not good.
And I thought those prayers for better times ahead be a good place to leave this episode.
Thanks for listening. I'm andrew, waite. Thanks to Aaron Pilaria, who provides marketing for this podcast, and Jim Gilbert, who provides the production. Take care.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: You're listening to the Weighing in podcast with columnist Andrew Waite.
